The Paul Elam Debate, Part 3

This will be my final installment in this debate. Before I begin, I want to commend Mr. Elam for his willingness to defend his ideas in an open forum, and thank him taking part in the conversation.

It may not feel like it, but we’re making progress. For example, Paul has conceded that:

1) Game is a useful tool for men who would like to increase the options available to them in their sex lives. As Paul himself wrote in a comment on the original Chateau Bullshit post:  “but one caveat that can’t be ignored. The tactics these guys employ work. Maybe not with you, but with lots and lots of women. I was not arguing that they would fail, just that it isn’t worth it.”

2) Young men are in desperate need of guidance and instruction in the modern dating market.

For my part, I will grant that many valid criticisms of the wider seduction community have also been made. There are a lot of posers selling overpriced bullshit. Most tactics really aren’t that important, once you achieve a basic level of social competence. The seduction community really does contain men who are obsessed with the pursuit of women above all else, and who need to be told that they’ll live more fulfilling lives if they broaden their horizons.

All of these criticisms apply to a segment of the seduction community that is generally unaffiliated with Roissy, myself, Chuck, Gmac, Donlak, and the circles we run in. But at least, the caricature Paul seems to imagine for us is not a complete hallucination.

I’m curious though – since the Roissysphere is far and away the most MRA-friendly and risk-conscious segment of the wider seduction community, why attack it? Why not write a post saying, “The seduction community is a bunch of bullshit, but if you must read blogs about picking up women, here are a few Game bloggers who, 1) Are aware of MRA issues, and 2) Aren’t trying to sell you thousand-dollar seminars. I still think they’re wrong about X, Y and Z, but they’re the best of a bad lot.”

I have my theories as to why many in the MRM are so hostile towards the seduction community, but I won’t go into them here. Perhaps some time in the future.


In any case, I’m going to shift gears in this final post. Until now, I’ve been arguing the pro-Game position on a purely personal level. To summarize: Men should learn how to improve their relationships with women, and tune out the voices of men who’ve given up in life, and wish for you to share in their misery. Call it something other than Game, if you’re allergic to the word, but learning how to approach and seduce women is one of the most essential skills a man can have in life. And it can be learned.

Like I said, Paul seems to agree with all this. Still, we seem to be talking past each other.

As those who read my blog know, I primarily write about self-improvement. I focus on how to become a better man for selfish, personal reasons. My blog is very rarely political in nature. Not overtly, at least.

Paul on the other hand is an activist. I’m sure he wants you to become a better man. But his primary focus is on achieving legal, political and institutional change.

So today I want to engage Paul on his own territory. I want to discuss Game, not as a tool for personal success and better living, but as a tactic in the MRM arsenal in the fight against feminism and misandry.

Let’s start with a bold claim.

Game is the key to male empowerment in the western world. The ground-level war against feminism and misandry will be won by the seduction community.

There are two fronts  on which the Men’s Rights Movement must fight: On the public front, they must fight the political, legal and cultural force that perpetuate misandry. But they also must convince individual men to make better choices in their personal lives.

What is the long-term solution to divorce theft, for example? Well, obviously we would like to see the family law system gutted and replaced by something moral, sane and fair. That’s not going to happen overnight though. Until then, we need to tell men: Don’t enter into legal marriage lightly, if at all.

Perhaps one day the penalty for a false rape accusation will be equal to the penalty for rape. Until then, we need to tell men: If a drunk bipolar girl with a personal history of deceit, drama and manipulation wants to bang you, maybe you should think twice.

More broadly, American men need to stop being such complete and utter pussies in their personal dealings with women. They need to:

– Stop accepting poor behaviour from crazy girls

– Stop encouraging fat chicks by banging them

– Stop letting their women be the men in their relationships

– Have expectations, and enough pride in themselves to walk away from women who don’t meet them

– Stop spending their entire lives supplicating to women in exchange for sex, i.e. by paying for expensive dates, presents, vacations, and so on

To win these small battles, men need to have power in their relationships with women. They need options, so they can walk away from women and behaviour that they don’t approve of.

Over the past half-century, men have been taught to cede control of all the power they have in their personal relationships with women. They have been trained to continue upholding their side of the social contract, while women have been told that any expectation for them to do the same is oppression, pure and simple. The Roissysphere is the solution to this imbalance. We are teaching men that it’s OK to be a cad, it’s OK to be selfish, and it’s OK to pursue your own wants and needs in the world.

The result will be the breakdown of the sexual marketplace. Feminism is not a self-sustaining entity. It is a parasite, and it requires ‘good guys’ to feed on. Game is the Red Pill that is turning good (i.e. obedient and self-sacrificing) men bad.

The bigger legal, political and cultural fights are important. But the battle is also being fought in the kitchens, bedrooms, dinner tables, and yes, barroom dance floors of our society every day. Western men will never stand up to feminism politically, until we have learned to stand against it personally.

By far the most amusing argument I’ve seen used against Game over the course of this debate is that practitioners of the crimson arts are inherently supplicative towards women. Several commenters seem to be under the impression that ‘Gamers’ achieve their carnal goals by caving in to what women want, jumping through hoops for them, and generally betraying their manly dignity for a taste of some sweet, sweet pussy. The reality is that nothing could be further from the truth.

As anyone remotely familiar with the discipline knows, a man who has properly learned and applied Game will be far less supplicative in his dealings with women than he was before. An attractive man is dominant. He is in control. He is the master of his fate, and his woman’s. Consider this story of a man who used Game to reassert his dominance in his marriage:

“I got married young, and simply did not understand anything about game, or the benefits of assertive masculinity. I put my wife on a pedestal and spent 7 years or so of a very contentious, walking on egg-shell type of relationship that teetered towards divorce more than a few times.

I discovered PUA/Game sites like this one a few years ago, and after a bit of reading on shit tests, and the subconscious mating desires of females, I began to “run game” on my wife.

The transformation of our relationship is astounding.

Yes, she put on a good 40 lbs. a couple of years after we got married.

Once I learned to game her subconscious, competitive instincts and began to plant suggestions in her mind that I was desirable to other women…she’s gotten motivated and lost the weight, and her affection towards me reverted back to the way she was before got married.

Once I started recognizing her shit tests and began to not just “pass them” but literally blow them up, the passive-aggressive emotionally driven conflict that had been the hallmark of our relationship has all but disappeared.

We don’t fight anymore.

My wife, who used to grumble and complain and tell all her closest friends and family that we had a “difficult relationship with lots of problems that needs working on” now tells everyone she’s happily married without blinking an eye.”

His story (which goes on in more detail in the post) is extremely typical in that the result of learning Game was empowerment in his personal relationships. Game made him powerful. Thank god no one told him that Roissy was ‘bullshit’ before it did, or he would still be struggling through a shitty marriage, and perhaps a messy divorce.

Game empowers the men who use it on a deeper level as well. A man who is confident in his ability to consistently find and seduce women will be less likely to expose himself to risks such as marrying a pregnant hooker, because he has options. In my case, I’m probably never getting married, and I would happily walk away from a woman I loved if she refused to accept this. I can do this because I have options. I have options because I have Game. If I had neither, I would be much more likely to accept marriage and the risks it entails, because golly gee, what are the odds of another woman falling for me? Game turns regular $20k-wedding, no-prenup chumps, into Skittles Men.

The final point on which Paul and I agree, and also the most important one, is that the men of my generation need help. Millions of us are unemployed, indebted, and broke. Millions of us are fat, weak and out of shape. Millions of us are wasting away in front of computer and TV screens, letting the hours and days of our lives slip away. And yes, millions of us are completely and utterly failing to have healthy and enjoyable relationships with women. The vast majority of us want to regularly get laid. Most will eventually want to have families.

A huge number will never realize those goals, if they continue on the paths they’re on.

Me and my fellow ‘Gamers’ are doing our best to offer the men of my generation solutions to these challenges. We haven’t figured out all the answers yet. But we’ve figured out some. Paul does you a disservice by trying to hide you from our world.